{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/4746q1ss82/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["Mahalia Jackson's Apollo Recordings"]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/019/original/ARSC_Full_Logo_RGB_K.jpg?1605438091","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Mark Burford (Presenter)","Danielle Cordovez (Chair)","Michael Biel (Videographer)","Leah Biel (Videographer)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2019-05-11 (Created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Format"]},"value":{"en":["Video"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eFor many fans, record collectors, and students of black vernacular music, Mahalia Jackson’s recordings for the Apollo label, made between October 1946 and June 1954, represent a watershed in gospel music history. Though Jackson was, in fact, already recording the religious pop that proliferated in the 1950s, admirers offer her Apollo sides as exemplars of a period of relative gospel purity preceding, many assert, the rerouting and overproduction of Columbia Records’ crossover efforts. Focusing on those recordings stylistically closest to gospel, this paper will consider three aspects of Jackson’s Apollo output: the trajectory of the label’s production strategies, the performance practices employed by the singer, and the historical significance of this body of work for our understanding of the postwar black gospel field. Jackson’s instrumental accompaniment at Apollo exhibits a clear trajectory that was already apparent in her first three sessions, progressively complementing piano with first organ and then guitar, and eventually growing to a full rhythm section and backing singers. Alongside their drift toward an increasingly ear-catching sonic surface, these recordings can be sorted according to three distinct “feels”: an uptempo “swing” feel, an expressively phrased “gospel” feel, and a “free” feel reserved primarily for hymns. Lastly, the success of Jackson’s Apollo recordings, and in particular her breakout hit “Move On Up a Little Higher,” helped coax gospel singers to relax their ambivalence toward recording, upstaging gospel songs circulating as sheet music and making charismatic performance in the form of gospel singing a more mobile medium for the artform.\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Association for Recorded Sound Collections"]}},{"label":{"en":["Rights Statement"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright Association for Recorded Sound Collections\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Video Editor"]},"value":{"en":["Amanda McCabe"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eFor many fans, record collectors, and students of black vernacular music, Mahalia Jackson\u0026rsquo;s recordings for the Apollo label, made between October 1946 and June 1954, represent a watershed in gospel music history. Though Jackson was, in fact, already recording the religious pop that proliferated in the 1950s, admirers offer her Apollo sides as exemplars of a period of relative gospel purity preceding, many assert, the rerouting and overproduction of Columbia Records\u0026rsquo; crossover efforts. Focusing on those recordings stylistically closest to gospel, this paper will consider three aspects of Jackson\u0026rsquo;s Apollo output: the trajectory of the label\u0026rsquo;s production strategies, the performance practices employed by the singer, and the historical significance of this body of work for our understanding of the postwar black gospel field. Jackson\u0026rsquo;s instrumental accompaniment at Apollo exhibits a clear trajectory that was already apparent in her first three sessions, progressively complementing piano with first organ and then guitar, and eventually growing to a full rhythm section and backing singers. Alongside their drift toward an increasingly ear-catching sonic surface, these recordings can be sorted according to three distinct \u0026ldquo;feels\u0026rdquo;: an uptempo \u0026ldquo;swing\u0026rdquo; feel, an expressively phrased \u0026ldquo;gospel\u0026rdquo; feel, and a \u0026ldquo;free\u0026rdquo; feel reserved primarily for hymns. Lastly, the success of Jackson\u0026rsquo;s Apollo recordings, and in particular her breakout hit \u0026ldquo;Move On Up a Little Higher,\u0026rdquo; helped coax gospel singers to relax their ambivalence toward recording, upstaging gospel songs circulating as sheet music and making charismatic performance in the form of gospel singing a more mobile medium for the artform.\u003c/p\u003e"]},"requiredStatement":{"label":{"en":["Attribution"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eCopyright Association for Recorded Sound Collections\u003c/p\u003e"]}},"provider":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Association for Recorded Sound Collections"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Association for Recorded Sound Collections"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/019/original/ARSC_Full_Logo_RGB_K.jpg?1605438091","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/094/596/small/open-uri20200716-839-13ztc7e_1594922460.jpg?1594908070","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 2 - open-uri20200716-839-13ztc7e.mp4"]},"duration":2171.712,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/094/596/small/open-uri20200716-839-13ztc7e_1594922460.jpg?1594908070","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arsc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/094/596/original/open-uri20200716-839-13ztc7e.mp4?1594908059","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":2171.712,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17014","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17014/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Our next presenter is Mark bruford Burford, who is the associate professor of music Reed College in Portland, where he is also chair of the African American Studies Program. Because research and teaching focuses on late 18th century and 19th century Ostro German concert music and 20th century popular music in the United States. With particular focus on African-American music after World War 2, his scholarship has appeared in numerous peer reviewed journals and other and other edited collections. His article Sam Cooke as Pop Album Artist A Reinvention in Three Songs, received the Society for American Music's 2012 Urban Lorne's award for that outstanding article on American music. He is the author of Mahalia Jackson and the Black Gospel Field, released last fall by Oxford University Press. And he recently completed a manuscript for the moment, the Mahalia Jackson Reader, an anthology of writings on Jackson that he's editing for Oxfords readers on American Muses. You should see music musician series. Many apologies, Kaido. The presentation is Mahalia Jackson's Apollo recordings. When gospel singer Mahalia Jackson entered Apollo Records, New York City's studio for her first session on October 3rd, 1946. She was a highly acclaimed church singer who had not yet cut a record in nearly a decade, and black gospel music recorded for commercial release was still a highly speculative venture. By her final session for Apollo 8 years and 14 sessions later, Jackson was a highly coveted recording artist and spiritual music. An umbrella term for black religious recordings, was a booming field in the popular music industry. Why should we care about these recordings? Well, Jackson's Apollo sides became a foundation for her national and transnational reputation. If Jackson's church-based got to know her voice through her appearances on gospel programs, many others became devoted fans and continually renewed their admiration through listening to her records. This was significant in that these sides indicated and in some ways precipitated gospel singers changing attitudes toward recordings. For most gospel singers, live performances remain the principal vehicle for making one's name well into the 1940s. Several factors conspire to shift the culture surrounding gospel recording. The 1940 founding of BMI, which became a counterweight to ask. H\u0026P provided fresh stimulus for composers beyond Tin Pan Alley, offered new professional vistas for gospel songwriters and place new a new body of repertory into media circulation. Meanwhile, entrepreneurs in the mid-40's launch hundreds of independent labels like Apollo, devoted in varying degrees of the production of rhythm and blues and black gospel. Complementing this development was the growth of black targeted radio and the increasing curatorial power of the disc jockey, which boosted the supply and accessibility of black gospel music. And though the tide was already turning, Jackson's work for Apollo was itself a watershed. In particular, the popularity of Move On Up A Little Higher, which became Jackson's first hit record in early 1948, coaxed many gospel singers to relax their tepid ness toward recording. Jackson herself was convinced that Move On Up A Little Higher was the song that opened up the doors for me in many places, teaching gospel singers that the music industry and the music industry that you could take religious songs and sing them just like you singing in church, put them on records and people would buy them. So Jackson's recordings for Apollo market important turning point within her personal career, but also within the history of black gospel music as recorded sound and as a vehicle of mediation between church communities and broader, more diverse listening publics. Jackson's Paula recordings have also been mobilized in discourses on black vernacular esthetics among fans and recorded collectors. Their frequently held up as exemplars of a period of relative gospel purity preceding the perceived rerouting and overproduction of Columbia Records crossover efforts. And there's some truth to this narrative. In subsequent years at Columbia, parallel projects of producing Jackson and Jackson at Columbia by Georgia back in and by Mitch Miller sought to present Jackson as a jazz leading album artist, showcasing her gospel voice as a vehicle for various forms of religious pop. Though many of these same stylistic negotiations were underway even at Apollo. Yet somewhat paradoxically, the lavish praise for Jett for and revered status of Mahalia Jackson's Apollo sessions has largely bypassed sustained consideration of the actual body of recordings. So this morning, drawing on the discussion in my book, I like to consider one way we might think about this body of work. First, a quick introduction of Mahalia Jackson. Jackson was born in 1911 in the uptown New Orleans neighborhood adjacent to the Mississippi River levee, now known as the Black Pearl, baptized at Mount Moriah Baptist Church. He migrated in 1931 to Southside Chicago, where she became an active singer at Greater Salem Baptist Church. Jackson's first commercial recordings were released by Decca in 1937. But after making the rounds on the Chicago church circuit, touring as a song plugger for pioneering gospel composer Thomas Dorsey and building a reputation through the National Baptist Convention. She broke through at Apollo with the unprecedented success of Move On up a little higher. Six years later, in 1954, Jackson left Apollo to become a radio, television and recording artists for CBS and its subsidiary, Columbia Records, which made her a celebrity among entirely new body of listeners beyond her black church base. Jackson's international success with Columbia stimulated a widening interest in black gospel music that exploded the field and, one might argue, helped to carve out a space of appreciation for gospel influenced voices into which soul singers sidestepped in the early 60s. I mentioned briefly that Jackson recorded eight songs for Apollo listed here that were in the vein of the religious pop that began to circulate widely around 1950 amid the surge of early Cold War era religiosity. In the interest of time, however, I'm going to focus on Jackson's more explicitly gospel leaning, gospel rooted repertory at Apollo, which I believe can be sorted according to what I call three distinct fields a swing feel, a gospel feel and a free feel reserved primarily for hymns, though feel may seem an ambiguous music analytical rubric. Each of these fields is established by determinable factors that include tempo, metrical organization, rhythmic impulse, expressive strategy, vocal support, a vocal approach, relationship between Jackson and her accompanists and repertory. So I feel I mean something different from what ethnomusicologist Ingrid Monson suggests. When she refers to the achievement of a groove or feeling in jazz performance, a feel as I can seem a bit here, is not something that is or is not attained in the act of performance, but rather it's something closer to what Albert Murray, in his analysis of the idiomatic and procedural expertise required for what he calls playing the blues, characterizes as a specific technology of stylization. So I'm thinking of it as something gospel singers bring, gospel musicians bring to their performances of songs based on their knowledge of prior performances in gospel traditions of stylization. I'm thinking of it as something he's me. Might discernment of these three fields on Jackson's Apollo recordings is based on my study of this body of work, and I'm not proposing an all encompassing taxonomy for all black gospel recordings made in the 1940s and 50s. But approaching gospel recordings of this period with my ears a tune toward listening for these three fields. I found that they recur to a consistent degree, but my broader hope is to open up, not to foreclose closer examination and discussion of these and other gospel recordings from the era. So first, the swing feel. Jackson never forgot early criticism from conservative black black Baptists that the rhythmic energy she put into a performance of gospel songs crossed the line and veered towards sacrilege. With Jackson's performances of such songs, often shared is an unmistakable sense of swing or what she herself referred to as bounce. In addition to the uneven, long, short, long, long, short eighth notes subdivision typically associated with swing recordings that I'm specifically identifying as having a swing feel also share for relatively equally accented beats to a bar and faster tempos. So 4/4 bar felt as that long short subdivision. So it's this combination of four beats to a bar articulation swung eight notes and fast tempo that you heard actually on one of the examples that are Bertier just played that established the swing feel of Jackson's performances. Jackson often took matters into her own hands on some songs riding the Swing feel with notable force at her eighth session for Apollo, with backing her first with backing singers. Jackson sounds particularly inspired, doing some of her fiercest singing on record on the swing number How I Got Over. And as you'll hear in other cases, Jackson deliberately foregrounded a song swing feel by pulsing vowels in a manner that anticipate soul singer Mavis Staples singing, for example, Get Away a Joe. And so she emphasizes that long, short subdivision with her pulsing. So here are three brief examples of Jackson's swing recordings Getaway Jordan How I Got Over and said he would. And as you're listening, I encourage you to be attentive to the physical sensation of this feel produced by the strong four to the floor, pacing and propulsive, long, short subdivision of the beat. Oh, no. On. Yeah. Sam. Sam. Sam. Just. You see some. Jackson also recorded a group of songs for Apollo that she performed what I call a gospel feel distinguishable from her swing numbers. This is a little bit more explanation. The definitive characteristic of the gospel feel as a metric and rhythmic aspect rooted in the dialog heard in many quartet and gospel group performances that I refer to as the gospel seesaw. As I describe Jackson, swing recordings maintain four solid beats per bar and thus a continuous pulse that could be reinforced with a walking bass in. In contrast, a common practice in postwar gospel performances is a volleying back and forth between a soloist and her backing vocals backing group structured such that the lead sings phrases centered on or around the pickup and downbeat of a bar. The fourth and beats four and one, leaving space for the supporting vocalists to fill out the middle to be to the bar beats two in three, or vise versa. So the subdivision of the beat is crucial to this gospel feel, which differently than swing emphasizes all three triplets of compound meter, particularly on the second and fourth beat of the bar. So together these elements divide a four beat bar into two beat segments that are felt in 4/4 time as four and a one, two and three. So if if the four beat bar and swing is felt as the gospel feel is four and one, two and three, four and a one, two and three. So this kind of back and forth kind of simulates a kind of seesaw relationship as I'm hearing it. So this complementary phrasing, the continuous alteration of what we might identify as the four, one and two, three ends of the seesaw is a signature feature of Jackson's gospel field recordings. And in this sense, pianist Mildred Falls bridging her sung phrases with the triplet plus quarter note rhythmic motive. That is the basic building block of the gospel seesaw, which so that tut, tut, tut thaat kind of a Beethoven's Fifth motor, we might say, was Jackson's copartner. In producing this feel, a song's lyrics often accommodate gospel c soft phrasing with the natural accentuation of phrases like one of these days, eternal life. I have no one. I sought the Lord already articulating the gospel seesaw rhythmic cell that tottered to top another identifying factor in Jackson's particular approach to gospel feel Apollo recordings as temple. Her songs rendered with the gospel feel were invariably taken slower than those with a swing feel. So here are two examples of Jackson's gospel feel songs. I have a friend and Thomas Dorsey's Consider Me and notice even the title of the songs already articulate that I have a friend consider me, which I don't think is a coincidence. Again, be attentive as you can't. How differently the four equally weighted beats of the swing tunes feel in comparison with the seesaw effect of these two songs on which the piano and guitar responses to Jackson's vocal lines are indispensible to executing the feel of these performances. No. You know, he has said he. No one. I can't. So just to solidify in your ear and bodily response the difference between these two fields. I like to play an excerpt from Jackson's recording of I'm Getting Near My Home, which begins with the slower gospel feel and switches mid-song to a more driving swing feel illustrating how Jackson vocalized over these contrasting fields, but also how what's going on musically is really more than just a change in temple. It's a change in feel. Oh, no. Switch to swing. The third fill in Jackson's Apollo recordings is most closely linked to her performances of hymns, Jackson recorded 14 hymns for Apollo, which she invariably performed at an exaggeratedly slow tempo fill. Her hymn performances are perhaps better described as free and their general non adherence to either a steady beat or strictly method measured rhythms, making room for her liquid into intonation and expressive use of vocal runs. As some gospel historians have observed, Jackson's style of performing hymns reflects the influence of a venerable type of congregational singing known among Black Baptist as Lined Out, or Dr. Watts him. Nitti hymns are lined out in the sense that the song leader introduces one line of text of the time, which is then sung by the congregation in a more elaborately drawn out variant. Here's a short excerpt of a recording of Jackson demonstrating the lined out Baptist him before this time another year for jazz historian Bill Russell in her Chicago apartment. And notice how Jackson modeled the leader group division of Labor by first singing a line and then repeating it in a much more drawn out fashion in which the congregation would have would have responded. We. We. Dee dee dee dee dee. Oh. And as you'll hear in this excerpt from our Paula recording of a child of a king, child of the King, Jackson's performance of free hymns don't necessarily reproduce what's Dr. what singing per say, but they're clearly guided by the performance practice and sound of lined out Hindi as she heard it and is still heard in black Baptist churches. Jackson consistently brought this feel and vocal style to her performance of the hymns that she recorded for Apollo. Here's a child of the King. Oh. He. You. So I'm happy to handson more answer questions about these sessions, but I'll say in closing that beyond the issues I raised earlier, Jackson's Apollo recordings MARC a pivot point in the black gospel field that shadowed the music industry more broadly, a period during which the economy of gospel songs commodified. A sheet music ceded ground to gospel, singing commodified as recordings by charismatic singers like Jackson to be consumed by fans. But I hope to also suggested help thinking in fields, particularly in the realm of black gospel music brings a range of musical elements into dialog, while also highlighting our embodied response to musical sound as a mode of analysis. Thank you very much. AVP MARC. Does anyone have a question for MARC make our way around? Thanks. That was great. Who? Which people? Was it the or how do you describe how some one filmed her performing was sacrilegious in some way. Who what type of person felt that? And what exactly? How do you how is it defined by those people? Well, I think that when I mean, one thing to know about Mahalia Jackson growing up in New Orleans is she had really big years. So she was going to the Black Baptist Church, learning, lining out him nitti. I'm learning hymns. But she also lived down the street from a sanctified church. So she was going there. And there are demonstrably different styles of worship. In fact, some of her family members talked about how we didn't really know how to worship like the people at the Pentecostal church as Baptist. But Mahalia kind of had an inclination toward it. So I think she was bringing that she was bringing her interest in Bessie Smith. She grew up studying Bessie Bessie Smith Records. She grew up studying classical recordings by Marian Anderson, by Roland Hayes, by Lawrence Tibbett, Grace Moore, even white opera singers. So I think she was bringing these influences into these traditions of black Baptist performance that perhaps some and also that there was a kind of physicality. People described the physicality of her performance that I think some people found perhaps black the propriety that that performance of church might be so. And she she really did constantly she almost kind of had a sense of vindication. I think in the end that she was able to achieve fame on her own terms, despite the sometimes pretty severe criticism that she got early on. Thank you very much for the presentation. I'm intrigued how Mahalia Jackson came to sign for Apollo records in New York. Now, Apollo was co-owned by a best sperm. And she had a reputation as being a tough lady. All she had to be a tough lady to be a record lady in that New York environment. So I wonder how Jackson came to sign for Apollo and what her relationship was with Bess Berman, because it did last for quite a few years. Thank you. It's really a great question. I think I'm glad you mentioned best, Berman, because she she has a conflicted representation of literature as being this kind of brass tacks, even kind of sometimes unscrupulous person. But she really was a pioneer in the music industry at the time. She wasn't the original and her husband was the original owner. And then for reasons that are slightly unclear, she was given basically for full reign of the label. The story how Jackson got with apologies is another kind of interesting kind of hidden story in gospel music. There is a series of concerts that were held at the Golden Gate Auditorium in Harlem that were run by a black religious concert producer named Johnny Myers. And it was an interesting kind of nexus of bringing groups through that would perform it. They performed at the Golden Gate and then would in some ways be kind of semi auditioning for New York's independent record label. So there were several record labels who basically were getting talent from these Johnny Meyer's concerts. So was Johnny Meyers, who actually introduced Mahalia Jackson. She had this big hit. She brought it in New York, played all over the place, created a sensation. And Jane Meyers basically facilitated her signing with signing with Apollo. So he was a kind of middle man between these gospel concerts, an independent record labels in New York. So what's interesting is that the case of Jackson and Apollo is in some ways just a very kind of way of doing business, a pretty ordinary relationship that was happening all over the place. But it just was a uniquely spectacular result because of the success of her recordings. Thank you, MARC, who determined the instrumental accompaniment on the sessions. And was this always correlating with those fields that you were furthering, too? I know there was that one hybrid record, but was the organ, for instance, always used in the more devotional hymns? Did they mix them up? And who were these accompanists throughout her polo career? It's a good crescent's kind of someways is two stories is the story I'm telling about these recurring fields over the course of her eight years, Apollo. But then there's another story of how there's a trajectory of. Production that begins with more spare production, just piano, often just piano and organ, sometimes just piano or piano and guitar. Do that gradual adding of instrumentation. So there's been drums are added and there's almost a kind of rhythm and blues feel to some of the recordings. Then there's a period was a fruiterer is kind of her Doo-Wop sessions where she's singing with these with these male backing groups. One of which, on the one you said he would was the Southern Harmonizers, which was a renaming of the Doo-Wop Group, the lark's, which was this well, which was a trans translation of an earlier gospel group, the C-Leg, Jubilee Singers. So she went through a period where they're adding backing vocalists. And by the end, there's one kind of kuku record where she's where there's a tenor saxophone on there, which I think probably tipped for some church goers, tipped it a little bit too far. So there's a kind of treat there thinking about how to frame her voice in various ways. And that kind of moves towards a more. So you can listen to some songs that have a gospel feel in a kind of more spare setting, but hear that same feel with a more elaborate, elaborate backing on later records. Thanks for the wonderful presentation. I have a New Orleans question. I just wonder if some of the songs that moved from us a gospel field to a swing feel in the same song might in some ways mirror a jazz funeral, since many of them do precisely that. Now it's more like from a gospel field to a funk field, but it's the same kind of thing. That's a great question. I hadn't thought of that, but I think that's true because consistently there's maybe five or six these hybrid songs and they always move from a slower field to a faster field. So if it starts with that kind of free feel, it'll move to either a gospel feel or a swing feel. If it starts with a gospel feel, it'll move to a swing feel. So that progression from a kind of smooth, slower or more meditative kind of sound to something that has more driving. That's it's interesting. And I wonder if that was a a Jackson. I'm sure it was Jackson's choice of moving in that direction because she talks a lot about marching in second lines and hearing. Hearing this music when she was growing up. New Orleans. Thank you for that. We have time for one or two more questions. Oh, sorry, I. I recall a wonderful talk you gave about eight years ago at Reed College. And I might have asked the question that has suddenly been niggling in my mind. I went with a group carload from Bloomington, Indiana, up to Indianapolis, a tabernacle to see Mary Jackson, accompanied by organist and a piano player and a large, large crowd of African-Americans and a little handful of white folks. And I noticed on some pieces it seemed to me that she would get into a song with a kind of rhythm and the audience would start picking it up. That kind of song, however brash categorize. But as soon as the audience really got in to joining in with fervor, she broke into a Methodist Medek passage. And I'm scratching my head about that. And I wondered if at that time this was 1958, whether she was kind of thinking of her art as elevated from basic church to a more different plane, as it were. Or am I mistaken? Remember? Yeah, I would say. I mean, a couple things that could be going on. One is, I think as she was performing for new audiences, she was very wary of the way in which the audience was getting into the music, as she was said, to want to make a mockery of this. So she'd sing at the Newport Jazz Festival. What if she felt like it was being taken in in too secular a way, she would kind of pull back the reins. Sometimes she also just said that, you know, you know, white folk don't have to clap to my music and they would throw her off and they'd be clapping on one and three. And she would just stop and say, let's try this again with another song. So it saw all kinds of reasons why she she said that it was to a striking degree. She said that actually a lot of that the audience clapped pretty good tonight. That's sometimes evaluated concert. So, yeah. B.h.. I'm sure it's a case by case basis. Did you have a question? Was this someone? Very good presentation, very interesting period you're describing. As you, I'm sure, well aware was the the secular music was moving from toward rhythm and blues and very heavy beat and eventually rock and roll. And there were people like Clyde McPhatter who kind of went from one side of the fence to the other. She seems to be straddling the fence. You talk about the pop oriented Apollo and you talk about swing is pretty heavy beat behind some of those sites. Did she ever enunciate what she was trying to do? Is she trying to do a more pop feel that would, you know, perhaps widened her audience even if it alienated some by listening to what you know? Good rockin tonight and the stuff that was going on around her was doing or was she trying to stay more in the gospel fold? I'd say she's definitely worth staying. Trying to stay in gospel was very wary of maintaining that. I think there are actually two fences that you're talking about. Your question. One was the fence being gospel singer is moving from gospel to rhythm, the blues and kind of taking their voices with them. But another fences kind of weaken situate historically and politically was what was going on in religious pop, where there is this effort to write songs that were in a pop vein but that were religious themed. And that's directly related to the Cold War, that one of the pillars of core ideology in the U.S. was this kind of emphasis on the the Judeo-Christian foundations of American culture and godless communism on the other side. So as a kind of performance, ritual performance, there is this kind of surge of religiosity that you get in the late 40s and early 50s and songs like Stuart Hamlin's There is no there is it is no secret what God can do. I believe these songs are being written specifically to tap into the kind of religiosity, these kind of national performances of Christianity that were going on. So at Apollo, as she is singing some of those songs, I think less to kind of cross over to pop and then they were religious songs. So I think the emergence of her career in this period is actually buffeted by the fact that the nation more broadly is kind of identifying more explicitly as as as Christian. So in some way she taps. She's both a roots music musician and she's also an exemplar of of American Judeo-Christian identity as well, too. So I think both things are going on. So I think that the crossover that so I don't think she ever wanted to kind of booster if she had her way, I think she would just sung gospel songs entirely. But her record producer is kind of wanted to tap into some of these other trends. I think, oh yeah. I definitely think she complained about the repertory that Mitch Miller, for instance, was making her sing at Apollo or some of the as she calls sweet and water songs that she called the kind of pop stuff that she was kind of fed. And I think she would love to just sing gospel full time. All right. Thank you to the presenters. I just think the guy's perspective. 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One is, I think as","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1894.28,1895.799"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/847","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she was performing for new","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1896.14,1897.414"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/848","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"audiences, she was very wary","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1898.27,1900.22"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/849","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of the way in which the audience","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1900.28,1902.289"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/850","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was getting into the music, as she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1902.29,1903.609"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/851","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was said, to want to make a mockery","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1903.61,1904.839"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/852","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of this. So she'd sing at the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1904.84,1905.829"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/853","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Newport Jazz Festival.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1905.83,1906.869"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/854","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"What if she felt like it was being","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1906.87,1908.41"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/855","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"taken in in too secular","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1908.77,1910.869"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/856","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a way, she would kind of pull back","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1910.87,1912.309"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/857","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the reins.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1912.31,1913.31"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/858","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sometimes she also just said that,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1913.36,1915.04"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/859","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"you know, you know,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1915.13,1916.599"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/860","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"white folk don't have to clap to my","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1917.02,1918.309"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/861","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"music and they would throw her off","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1918.31,1919.659"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/862","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"and they'd be clapping on one and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1919.66,1920.799"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/863","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"three. And she would just stop and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1920.8,1922.299"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/864","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"say, let's try this again with","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1922.3,1923.409"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/865","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"another song. So it saw all kinds","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1923.41,1925.239"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/866","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of reasons why she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1925.24,1926.3"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/867","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she said that it was to a striking","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1927.16,1929.019"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/868","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"degree. She said that actually a lot","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1929.02,1930.689"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/869","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"of that the audience clapped pretty","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1930.69,1932.259"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/870","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"good tonight.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1932.26,1933.039"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/871","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's sometimes evaluated","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1933.04,1934.63"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/872","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"concert. So, yeah.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1934.96,1935.749"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/873","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"B.h.. I'm sure it's a case by case","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1935.75,1937.416"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/874","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"basis.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1937.42,1938.42"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/875","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Did you have a question?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1942.4,1943.51"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/876","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Was this someone?","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1944.77,1945.77"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/877","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Very good presentation, very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1953.32,1954.519"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/878","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"interesting period you're","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1954.52,1956.22"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/879","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"describing.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1956.23,1957.159"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/880","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"As you, I'm sure, well aware was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1957.16,1959.319"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/881","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"the the secular music","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1959.35,1960.379"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/882","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"was moving from","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1961.18,1962.23"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/883","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"toward rhythm and blues and very","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1964.81,1967.03"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/884","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"heavy beat and eventually rock and","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1967.39,1969.056"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/885","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"roll. And there were people like","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1969.19,1970.359"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/886","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Clyde McPhatter who kind of went","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1970.36,1972.099"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/887","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"from one side of the fence to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1972.1,1973.209"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/888","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1973.21,1974.21"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/889","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"She seems to be straddling the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1975.25,1976.359"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/890","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"fence. You talk about the pop","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1976.36,1978.219"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/891","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"oriented Apollo and you talk","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=1978.61,1979.982"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/892","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"about swing is pretty heavy 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So I think both things are","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2115.65,2116.879"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/964","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"going on. So I think that the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2116.88,2118.301"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/965","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"crossover that so I don't think she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2118.38,2119.759"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/966","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"ever wanted to kind of booster","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2119.76,2121.8"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/967","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"if she had her way, I think she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2122.16,2123.419"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/968","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"would just sung gospel songs","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2123.42,2124.949"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/969","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"entirely.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2124.95,2125.95"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/970","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But her record producer is kind of","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2126.39,2128.099"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/971","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"wanted to tap into some of these","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2128.1,2129.359"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/972","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"other trends. I think,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2129.36,2130.379"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/973","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"oh yeah. I definitely think she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2132.45,2133.829"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/974","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"complained about the repertory that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2133.83,2135.545"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/975","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Mitch Miller, for instance, was","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2135.57,2136.889"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/976","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"making her sing at Apollo or","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2136.89,2138.599"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/977","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"some of the as she calls","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2139.29,2140.489"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/978","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sweet and water songs that she","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2141.28,2143.04"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/979","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"called the kind of pop stuff that","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2143.05,2144.667"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/980","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"she was kind of fed.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2144.84,2146.61"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/981","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think she would love to just","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2146.75,2147.809"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/982","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"sing gospel full time.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2147.81,2149.01"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/983","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All right. Thank you to the","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2151.17,2152.219"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/984","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"presenters.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2152.22,2153.22"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/985","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I just think the guy's perspective.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2154.17,2155.94"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/986","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And thank you all for coming.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596#t=2157.82,2159.52"}]},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["English [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/94596/transcript/17015/annotation/987","type":"Annotation","motivation":"subtitling","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/017/015/original/ARSC_conf_2019_Buford_video-2.vtt?1594908081","format":"text/vtt","language":"en"},"target":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/file_transcripts/associated_files/000/017/015/original/ARSC_conf_2019_Buford_video-2.vtt?1594908081"}]}]},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/256168","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 2 of 2 - ARSC_conf_2019_Burford_audio.mp3"]},"duration":2144.16988,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/public/images/audio-default.png","type":"Image","format":"image/png"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/256168/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/256168/content/2/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arsc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/256/168/original/ARSC_conf_2019_Burford_audio.mp3?1730850534","type":"Audio","format":"audio/mpeg","duration":2144.16988,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/955/collection_resources/27437/file/256168","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[]}]}