{"@context":"http://iiif.io/api/presentation/3/context.json","id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/iiif/8s4jm24683/manifest","type":"Manifest","label":{"en":["What Makes a Collector? A Conversation on Collecting Sound Recordings "]},"logo":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/019/original/ARSC_Full_Logo_RGB_K.jpg?1605438091","metadata":[{"label":{"en":["Agent"]},"value":{"en":["Berry, Dorothy (Presenter)","Levin, John (Presenter)","Pelote, Vincent (Presenter)","McClanahan, Allison (Moderator)","Bondurant, John (Moderator)","Shimoda, Yuri (Moderator)","Hockstein, Dan (Moderator)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Date"]},"value":{"en":["2022-01-20 (Created)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Description"]},"value":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe Association of Recorded Sound Collections is an organization of people who share a common interest in collecting and preserving sound recordings, whether at sound libraries and archives or cultural heritage institutions, as a private interest, or both. This panel will focus on exploring the idea of collecting and the \"collector\" identity: practices, motivations, and community.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDorothy Berry\u003c/strong\u003e is an archivist whose work focuses on the description and discoverability of African American cultural heritage materials. With a diverse academic background in new music performance, historical ethnomusicology, and archival studies, Berry has been able to lend a unique curatorial eye at enhancing discoverability of underrepresented histories at institutional repositories. She has worked at the Archives of African American Music and Culture, the Black Film Center/Archive, at University of Minnesota on Umbra Search African American History, and currently at Houghton Library, Harvard University where she serves as the inaugural Digital Collections Program Manager.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eJohn Levin \u003c/strong\u003ehas broadly collected records and phonographs from the acoustic era for over 45 years. More recently, he has focused on cylinder recordings on brown wax, with a current collection comprising more than 3,000 pre-1903 records. John is working closely with the Performing Arts Collection at UCSB to ensure that his researched collection and others like it are slated for long-term preservation and public access.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eVincent Pelote\u003c/strong\u003e is Senior Archivist and Digital Preservation Strategist at the Institute of Jazz Studies at Rutgers University-Newark. He has compiled discographies on Billie Holiday, Lionel Hampton, and on the Commodore Records label. Mr. Pelote is one of the contributors to the Oxford Companion to Jazz. He has written a number of album program notes on Lee Konitz, Johnny Smith, Mary Lou Williams, Benny Carter, Curtis Fuller, and others. He has written book and sound recording reviews for the ARSC Journal and Notes: The Quarterly Journal of the Music Library Association. He was one of the hosts of the radio program, \"Jazz From the Archives,\" which aired on WBGO-FM, National Public Radio (1979-2014).\u003c/p\u003e"]}},{"label":{"en":["Language"]},"value":{"en":["English (primary)"]}},{"label":{"en":["Publisher"]},"value":{"en":["Association for Recorded Sound Collections"]}}],"summary":{"en":["\u003cp\u003eThe Association of Recorded Sound Collections is an organization of people who share a common interest in collecting and preserving sound recordings, whether at sound libraries and archives or cultural heritage institutions, as a private interest, or both. This panel will focus on exploring the idea of collecting and the \"collector\" identity: practices, motivations, and community.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eDorothy Berry\u003c/strong\u003e is an archivist whose work focuses on the description and discoverability of African American cultural heritage materials. With a diverse academic background in new music performance, historical ethnomusicology, and archival studies, Berry has been able to lend a unique curatorial eye at enhancing discoverability of underrepresented histories at institutional repositories. She has worked at the Archives of African American Music and Culture, the Black Film Center/Archive, at University of Minnesota on Umbra Search African American History, and currently at Houghton Library, Harvard University where she serves as the inaugural Digital Collections Program Manager.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eJohn Levin \u003c/strong\u003ehas broadly collected records and phonographs from the acoustic era for over 45 years. More recently, he has focused on cylinder recordings on brown wax, with a current collection comprising more than\u0026Acirc; 3,000 pre-1903 records. John is working closely with the Performing Arts Collection at UCSB to ensure that his researched collection and others like it are slated for long-term preservation and public access.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\u003cp\u003e\u003cstrong\u003eVincent Pelote\u003c/strong\u003e is Senior Archivist and Digital Preservation Strategist at the Institute of Jazz Studies at Rutgers University-Newark. He has compiled discographies on Billie Holiday, Lionel Hampton, and on the Commodore Records label. Mr. Pelote is one of the contributors to the Oxford Companion to Jazz. He has written a number of album program notes on Lee Konitz, Johnny Smith, Mary Lou Williams, Benny Carter, Curtis Fuller, and others. He has written book and sound recording reviews for the ARSC Journal and Notes: The Quarterly Journal of the Music Library Association. He was one of the hosts of the radio program, \"Jazz From the Archives,\" which aired on WBGO-FM, National Public Radio (1979-2014).\u003c/p\u003e"]},"provider":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/aboutus","type":"Agent","label":{"en":["Association for Recorded Sound Collections"]},"homepage":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/","type":"Text","label":{"en":["Association for Recorded Sound Collections"]},"format":"text/html"}],"logo":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/organizations/logo_images/000/000/019/original/ARSC_Full_Logo_RGB_K.jpg?1605438091","type":"Image"}]}],"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/149/154/small/ARSC_webinar_20220120_Collector_flyer.jpg?1645053248","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154","type":"Canvas","label":{"en":["Media File 1 of 1 - 1645068000_ARSC_webinar_20220120_Collector_hires_transcode.mp4"]},"duration":5595.62667,"width":640,"height":360,"thumbnail":[{"id":"https://d9jk7wjtjpu5g.cloudfront.net/collection_resource_files/thumbnails/000/149/154/small/ARSC_webinar_20220120_Collector_flyer.jpg?1645053248","type":"Image","format":"image/jpeg"}],"items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/content/1","type":"AnnotationPage","items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/content/1/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"painting","body":{"id":"https://aviary-p-arsc.s3.wasabisys.com/collection_resource_files/resource_files/000/149/154/original/1645068000_ARSC_webinar_20220120_Collector_hires_transcode.mp4?1645050101","type":"Video","format":"video/mp4","duration":5595.62667,"width":640,"height":360},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154","metadata":[]}]}],"annotations":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533","type":"AnnotationPage","label":{"en":["Edited Transcript [Transcript]"]},"items":[{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/1","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All right, everyone, it's three o'clock and you know what that means. We're going to go ahead and get started just to make sure we're being respectful of folks' time. So, I'm going to introduce myself, my name is Dan Hockstein. I do audio preservation here at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. I'm also a master's student here. Chapel Hill sits on the land of the Occaneechi, Shakori, and Sissipahaw peoples. So I just want to recognize the land and sovereignty of those nations on which I'm fortunate enough to live and work. \n\nYuri Shimoda","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=0.0,46.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/2","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I am coming to you today from Tovangar, the traditional ancestral and unceded territory of the Gabrieleno Tongva people. Also known as Los Angeles. My name is Yuri Shimoda and I am on the production and asset management team of Disney Music Group. And I do have to say that any opinions I share today are my own. \n\nDan Hockstein","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=47.0,75.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/3","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Right, so I know we have many joining us today from sort of various corners of our outreach promotion efforts for this webinar series. So for those of you who may be unfamiliar with ARSC, the Association for Recorded Sound Collections is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings in all genres of music and speech, in all formats and from all periods. ARSC is unique in bringing together private individuals and institutional professionals, everyone with a serious interest in recorded sound, and that's something we'll be discussing today. We'll share a link in the chat, just in case you want to learn more about ARSC or possibly become a member. This ARSC Webinar Series is funded by a grant from the National Recording Preservation Board, administered by the Council on Library and Information Resources. \n\nYuri Shimoda","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=75.0,129.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/4","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And this particular event is a collaboration between the ARSC Education and Training Committee and the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Committee. Today's event will be moderated by Allison McClanahan, the collections and cataloging librarian at Indiana University's Archives of Traditional Music, and John Bondurant, digital archivist and clinical assistant professor at Texas A\u0026M University. And they both serve as chairs of the DEI Committee. And the conversation will last about one hour and will be followed by a Q\u0026A period. We've decided to disable the Zoom chat for this particular event, but please type any questions you may have into the Q\u0026A box. The webinar is being recorded and will be available on ARSC's Aviary site in the coming weeks. I'm going to go ahead and share the link with you to the Aviary site in the chat. But without further ado, I'd like to hand things over to Allison and John. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=129.0,209.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/5","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, welcome everybody, and thank you to Yuri and Dan for a great introduction. And so I'm just going to start right off. We've got several great panelists here and in lieu of reading formal introductions, I'm just going to go round the the board and ask. I'll start with Vincent Pelote and say, you know, could you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and experience with collecting or working with audio recording collections? \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=209.0,256.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/6","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sure. I'm Vincent Pelote and I'm coming at you from beautiful downtown Bayonne, New Jersey, which is the home of the Bayonne Bridge, which leads you into Staten Island. Anyway, I also work for the Institute of Jazz Studies at Rutgers University in Newark, New Jersey, and I've been there for 40 years. My current title is senior archivist and digital preservation strategist. And so I'm sort of like a double hitter here. I collect for the Institute of Jazz Studies, of course. In fact, I'm responsible for buying the CDs and LPs and whatever. And I also am a private collector, I've been collecting privately, probably since the late 70s, when I was able to get a job and afford to buy stuff. So that's my connection to collecting. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=256.0,305.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/7","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"All right, thank you very much. And so our next panelist is Dorothy Berry. Dorothy, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and experience with collecting and working with audio recording collections. \n\nYuri Shimoda","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=305.0,320.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/8","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sure. My name, as he says, is Dorothy Berry. I'm in Cambridge, Massachusetts. I work over at Houghton Library at Harvard, which is Harvard's largest repository for rare books and manuscripts, and also holds the Woodbury Poetry Room, which is a huge collection of audio recordings around poetry and literature. Previously, I've worked, and I can see Brenda on the call, as a grad student at the Archives of African-American Music and Culture. And, you know, more expansively, also at the Black Film Center Archive, where there was an. A without me, but I don't necessarily personally identify as a collector. You can probably see over my shoulder that there are records in my home, but it's not a curated amount and it's all things that are listened to pretty regularly. And I think that that's a large part of my relationship to collections of any sort and why I currently work as a digital collections program manager, because I am entirely focused on access over collecting. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=320.0,394.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/9","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"OK, thank you, Dorothy. And we'll have some interesting perspectives here. And our final panelist is John Levin and John, please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and experience with collecting and working with recorded sound collections. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=394.0,416.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/10","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, good morning or good afternoon to wherever all of you are. I happen to be located in the heart of the media beast. I'm in Los Angeles. And going back to college era, I got very involved in both the technology and content side of sound. I put a public station on the air and did broadcast engineering at night to pay the bills and subsequently just got much more involved in the technology side, initially basically collecting machines from the acoustic era, pre-25. And that led me much more seriously into the recordings, which I collected broadly and then I got more focused on basically the first commercial recordings from pre-1903, which is what I've been mostly focusing on for the last twenty five years. I think that's why I'm here. \n\nDan Hockstein","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=416.0,490.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/11","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, we're glad that you're here, John. So the next question Dorothy touched on just a little bit. So Dorothy, if you want to expand on your answer or pass it off to Vinnie or John, we're wondering of the three of you if you consider yourself a collector, why or why not do you take on the title of collector? And so, Dorothy, if you want to start us off? \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=490.0,524.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/12","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So for me, when I think about someone who might self-identify as collector, one thing that feels really key to me is to have is having some sort of guiding focus on what they're collecting. And that could be incredibly specific, it could be something like, you know, commercial recordings, pre-1903. And it could be something more, you know, just maybe you like a certain record label, you know, that's not even that rare, but you always get whatever their new releases are or something like that. And I think for me that having a collection development policy, which could be very, you know, like it could be a one person's collection development policy and it could even be, I don't spend more than $35 on a record. But I think that having some sort of framework that can be internal and personal or can be institutional and, you know, very staid and published even is to me what separates someone who has materials from someone who's doing something a little different that would be that can be codified as collecting. \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=524.0,599.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/13","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks so much, Vinny or John? \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=599.0,603.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/14","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'll jump in. You know, when I when I first saw that that question, I had to think about my original focus. I started listening to jazz as a teen. I was about 13 from around 1967-68. And once I got into it, I said to myself, I have to have a collection of this music. And so I said my focus will be to collect a representation of every era, and every important happening in jazz. And that was was going to be it. And I wasn't going to collect anything but LPs because I knew that 78s at that point in time would probably be very hard to find. And that was the only other option either 78s or LPs, or maybe 45s, but there wasn't much Jazz on 45s. Anyway. So I went with the LPs, and that's what I started collecting seriously. Once like, like I said before, once I got a job, a full time job substitute teaching in Jersey City Public School system. So I was able to go and start buying some of this stuff. And I guess in true collectors form, what started out as a sort of, \"I'm only going to do this,\" grew into this, \"I got to have everything.\" Of course, you can't have everything, but you don't give up on that. You try. So I just started buying anything and anything that I thought was was was worth collecting that was jazz. And, you know, whether it was rare or not. And I wasn't picky. I wasn't looking for specific labels or I didn't, and I didn't have to have the Blue Note from Liberty Street or whatever. I mean, to me, the music was the important thing, not so much the the artifact itself. And that's another type of collecting, by the way, some people just collect certain things or certain labels. I just wanted the music, so I didn't matter to me how I got it. I just had to have it. And but still, there was that focus and and it just took off from there. So. That's the collectors, and that's the collectors mentality, I guess, as far as I'm concerned. \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=603.0,740.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/15","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks so much. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=740.0,741.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/16","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I guess I could, I want to add to what Dorothy was speaking about because I think she really hit a couple of nails on the head. First of all, to me, there is a big difference between accumulators, collectors, hoarders, and people who see collecting as basically a financial proposition. But to me, a collector is someone who basically stimulates both sides of their brain through what they are able to find. It is that combination of the kind of indulging in the the unplanned, the unexpected, and somehow connecting it and rooting it in something that's intelligent and thoughtful and that to me is a true collector. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=741.0,807.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/17","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, I sort of was jokingly saying to my wife, you know, a collector to me is somebody who if you have $10 and you have a choice between buying lunch that day or buying an LP, you're going to buy the LP, the hell with the lunch, you don't need the lunch. You know where she would buy the lunch because she's not a collector. So that's the difference between collector and those who don't collect. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=807.0,836.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/18","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So our our next question and Vinny sort of has answered quite a bit of this or has started answering any of it is, do you have a personal collecting philosophy and what do you personally collect and and maybe, I mean, if you can kind of if you feel like you could expand a little bit more about that? You know, just sort of how did that develop when you started out, how to develop that sort of continue on that? \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=836.0,872.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/19","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Sure. I mean, it started out trying to hit all the high points. I mean, I was using a as my reference book at that time, Marshall Stearns's A Story of Jazz. And so I was, you know, you read, you read certain things, you read chapters and they talk about recordings and artists. And I said, OK, I got to hear Jelly Roll Morton's Red Hot Peppers. So I got to go get that stuff. So it started out really with a purpose. I mean, I really was trying to supplement this reading material that I had. And then it just sort of went crazy from there, I guess. You know, I'm not saying I collect everything that's in jazz, there's certain things in jazz I don't particularly like. I don't like smooth jazz, for instance, so I don't really collect smooth jazz. So I do have my things that I don't really, don't really want. So I'm not just trying to get everything. And maybe when I said that, I was just sort of joking.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=872.0,928.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/20","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But yeah, so I had a purpose. I started out with the purpose and then the purpose just grew from there because one thing led to another. If you have Jelly Roll Morton, then you have to have this and you have to have Louis Armstrong doing this. It just everything just sort of fit into everything else, and it just sort of took off. And then at some point I did get into the, \"That's a rare thing, and I have to have that because it's rare.\" And and I do have, well, I had some rarities. This is a really long story, I mean, I've actually sold my record, my LP collection, and started collecting CDs, and then I started recollecting LPs again, which again, is a collector's thing. I can't get the collecting thing out of my head. I mean, even though I, I thought I was trying to do that at one point. I just can't. I mean, I don't want to call it a sickness, but in a way it is. It is kind of for lack of a better word, and it's kind of a sickness. I mean, that's what my wife called it anyway. So I don't know if that really answers your question. But you know, I did start out with a specific goal in mind and it just went from there. That's all. And I guess that's about it I could really say on that at the moment. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=928.0,1008.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/21","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, Vinnie, I think there's quite a few of us here who resemble those remarks. So John, can you give sort of like your? \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1008.0,1022.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/22","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, absolutely, John. I mean, in, you know, in terms of this sort of my collecting focus on these early recordings, some of those things are going to resonate with Vinnie is there certain things that are just so incredibly rare, primarily early recordings that I just get them, you know, provided I can afford them. But then in other areas I'm more selective and there are certain genres I just, you know, I don't delve deeply into 1900, you know, sacred music. I just don't. Other people do, but I don't. So there's that kind of specific stuff. But the question's interesting is talks about a collecting philosophy. And I guess, as as Yuri knows, I'm fond of saying everything I know is wrong. And to the extent that there is a collecting muse in me, I don't I don't know what she, I don't know what she's about and what she's got planned. I mean, I just don't know. I've recently gotten back into fill in some areas of my vinyl jazz from the 60s and 70s, probably some of that stuff and make Vinny drool. But you know it just where it came from, I don't know where to. To fully understand why I got focused on early recordings would take some thought. It's a hard thing for me to understand. And frankly, it's a fool's errand to try to second guess where the the collectors muse takes him or her. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1022.0,1133.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/23","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If I may speak on the institutional side, though, because I also buy stuff for the Institute of Jazz Studies. We have a definite collection policy there too, where, well, you know, I say that, but let me just sort of couch that by saying when I started working there, it was already a collection of pretty darn good collection. I started working there as a work study student in the middle 70s and then I got there full time in 1978. And at that time, what had happened was, it was originally a private collection belonging to Marshall Stearns, who was a professor of English actually at Hunter College, a Chaucer scholar, actually. And he really liked jazz, and then he formed into a jazz studies in 1952. So he had a collection already. So the institute was really his collection and supplemented by stuff that was coming in from record companies. The curator who was responsible for that was Richard Seidel, and he got in touch with all these record companies and asked them if they would send us stuff so. So they were sending us stuff regularly, promo copies of LPs that, you know, came out like they would send to a radio station. So the collection was there. But at some point we decided we had to stop collecting everything because we couldn't. I mean, we had Beatles records. We have we have country western things. I mean, things were just being sent to us and we didn't throw anything away. So now we're more selective as to what we do accept. For instance, one thing that we used to take regularly was blues recordings, but there's a blues archive in Mississippi, so why are we doing what they're doing in Mississippi? Makes no sense. And also, keep in mind that at one time we were the only game in town. There really weren't any other collections like that, like ours. But now there are I mean, there's Rodgers and Hammerstein. There's, you know, there are other collections all over the country, the Marr Sound Archive in Kansas City. So we don't have to collect everything. I mean, we can be more selective as to what we do today. So we do have a policy of things that we do take in things that we don't. And yeah, so that that's a little more written than whatever than my personal one is so. So there, there is discipline somewhere. \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1133.0,1277.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/24","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that speaks to, you know, collaborative collection development between archives, to knowing where other big collections are and being able to focus your collection development policies. And Vinnie, you took the question out of my mouth, but you know, thank you so much. It was a lovely segueway. I'm wondering, Dorothy, since you work at an institution, if you work in collection development or if you have a collection philosophy for your institution. \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1277.0,1313.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/25","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, so I guess, as someone who works in digital collections, it's less about acquisitions and more about the creation of access. And I think that that relates both institutionally and personally to the people that I'm in community with that collect. That collecting is based on external relationship. You collect so that you can be a better DJ for people to listen to. You collect so that you can have a radio show. You collect so that you can rerelease rare music in community with the people that make that music. Whether there's a profit in that, there's never profit in making new vinyl records. But, you know, that sort of working back with people, and it's the same with deciding what to collect. And that includes a sort of, as both you and Vinnie have alluded to, these inter-archival relationships. It also, so you know, we have, as I said, the Woodbury Poetry Room. They collect poetry, you know, they're not buying perhaps it's a commercial recordings of sound, of commercial recordings of poetry that are audiobook. So I mean, having narrow focus and especially at a big university like Harvard. We're also not buying a lot of music because we have amazing colleagues in the music library who both know more and have that collecting purview. But again, that focus is still external, because we're also really we don't try to acquire audio material that we can't make available to scholars in person or digitally. And so that sort of a way that this view of collecting can be different than others because there is less of the potential pleasure at having a rarity that is also rare in its access from others. \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1313.0,1445.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/26","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks so much. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1445.0,1449.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/27","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, so that kind of does really lead very well into the next question, and I'm going to actually, you know, I'll start with John and others can can chime in as well. But so, you know, collecting can mean more than just acquiring the the recordings, the objects. Collecting also include care and preservation, and I think maybe even ultimately access to to the recordings. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1449.0,1498.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/28","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well. Absolutely. Do you want me to just speak to care and preservation or to sort of broadly? OK? I mean it depends, of course, on what you're collecting. Some artifacts are, the care and preservation is really not that big a problem, not that big a deal, you know? But when you're looking at stuff like this versus stuff like this? I mean, these are both these are both over 120 years old and, you know, their care and preservation is as much a part of the collecting as anything else. So I guess the fragility, the fungibility, of what you're collecting is a consideration. And if you're, you know, collecting stuff that's in the more fragile, fungible category, you know, you need to go and get it with your eyes open. But I also think that there are other considerations, too, which is what it all adds up to in the end. I mean, I see myself as a steward, as a proxy. And you know, where is all this leading to? And it's a controversial subject with a lot of collectors is where, you know, what is this all leading to? You focus on aggregating a certain batch of stuff, to understanding it, to exploring it, to cataloging it. What happens after? Does it just get scattered on the private market again? Or does it go somewhere else? And if it's going to go somewhere else, which is very much my focus, is that going to be a black hole or is it going to be committed to public access? These are the kinds of things that I think about beyond just care and preservation, which are frankly a real challenge with this early media. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1498.0,1642.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/29","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, of course, being at the Institute of Jazz Studies, we have to be concerned about preservation and care of our recordings. Really, that's something that's a big thing for us, not only because we have commercial recordings, but we also have a lot of noncommercial lacquer discs in our collection, as well as tape recordings, that need to be taken care of. In many cases, the only way you can really take care of them and preserve them is to transfer them to something digital because those formats were not meant to last as long as they've lasted, especially the lacquer discs. It always makes me cry a little bit when I start seeing the black lacquer peeling off of the thing because I know that's dying. I can't save that once that happens. But there's still a lot of things there that we can save, and we're trying our best to do so. Personally, I still think that there's a care issue because I mean, I know for a fact I would clean all my recordings. I didn't have a Keith Monk's machine, unfortunately, at home, but I had one at work, so I would take my things into work. I hope nobody's listening to this. Or I can do them at home and, you know, by hand. And you know, I can change the inner sleeves to make sure that you put in the proper sleeves on you. Make sure they're stored the proper way, you put them in and an area in your house that you know is, is close to being your humidity and you know, temperature, you know, friendly to your collection? You don't put it in someplace where there's going to be mold and crap like that. And you know, I had shelves built, I won't show the shelves, but I'm pointing to them over here. Had shelves built for my LPs and now my CDs are on them and things like that. So yeah, there was this feeling that once you get, once you acquire these things or you collect these things, you have to take care of them to make sure that they're going to be there for a while. And they're sort of like, sort of like my children. I hate to say this, to have put it that way, but you know, I take care of them like I would take care of my dog or, you know. And again, if that makes me crazy, I'm sorry. That's just the way I am. And I think a lot of collectors that I know are like that, you know, and I think that's part of what makes you a collector, when you care that much that you invest as much money into preserving what you have as well as actually getting what you, you know, have. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1642.0,1805.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/30","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, so I'll actually, Dorthy, I'm going to kind of give a little twist on this and being a digital archivist myself and knowing, you know, kind of address maybe the preservation and care in the digital age and sort of the life cycle. I mean, I always say it's like digital makes it so easy to do things, you know, you can copy and you can distribute and destroy, you know, so, you know, so to speak about how how the now kind of the other end of the spectrum and what your experience is and sort of the care and preservation on that on the digital end. \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1805.0,1849.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/31","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And sure, I mean, of course, transferring things to digital was still a temporary storage format in the scheme of things, as is everything because, so shall we all return to dust. But thinking about these sort of preservation concerns for digital versus some that might be more homegrown, there are different investments. You know, the investment of financially doing digital is often a real, a real stretch for most institutions. I serve on the Recordings at Risk grant team for the Council for Library and Information Resources and we fund like a quarter to half million a year, dollars of AV preservation through digitization and rehousing. And every single time we get at least three, four times as much money requested from the grants that are all amazing. The content always seems like it is all fantastic and you'd like all of it done. And that is a real pressure for institutions now, and potentially, depending on how they want to approach access and preservation, could be a real pressure for at-home collectors. But the question of not migrating, you know, making decisions about depending on the rarity of the audio, if this sound will be accessible at all? And that requires certain forms potentially of letting go of a commitment to the physical. Because if you can transfer data from a lacquer disc, but the playing of that lacquer disc means that this is the last time that that physical object can be in function. Because, you know, that's a classic nightmare experience of playing that record to digitize like transferring the record and as the transfers happen and you see the data flying off in the form of the physical. And I think that that is probably a more painful experience to imagine it for someone with a personal collection versus institutional. I mean, at my most likely to be identified as a collector era of life, that was a period in which we were pirating a lot of audio online. And I had such a huge collection, hard drives and hard drives of everything on Anthology Records, everything on Topic Records, everything on Shahnaz because that's loved field recordings like the nice. No interest in, well, I lived in a town of fourteen hundred people when I was at that age, so no ability to go to a record store, but also no interest in the physical, because in that era, a lot of the collecting focus was on personal knowledge of what you have heard and because the digital existed, that was that. And I think that that is still something that comes at loggerheads a lot of times of this physical versus digital. Sometimes institutions or generational differences can have people so drastically undervalue the physical that it feels disrespectful to personal collectors or people who have been just collecting for longer or who have a love of the particular physical medium. Sometimes that can feel like a physical type gatekeeping, because, you know, if you want to hear some obscure early American music, you're more likely to be able to get that online than to find an actual physical recording. Even a lot of that stuff on CD is really rare at this stage. But, it's all trade offs. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=1849.0,2099.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/32","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I think that there's a tendency to going back to what Vinnie was talking about to think, well, you know, if we digitize it, you know, we've done our job. And you know, to your point, Dorothy, that's, you know, if that's a destructive process, it's a nightmare. Because there are a great many early recordings that were played off to tape 40 years ago, 50 years ago. And those tapes are now falling apart and we've lost the original asset, and it's tragic. But that was the hubris of that era that, you know. And so we have to be careful of the hubris of this era, which is, you know, to do, you know, one 192 kHz transfer means we're done. I don't think we are. But that, of course, gets into all the challenges Dorothy's talking about in terms of all the costs and challenges of basically having of analog and digital assets. \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2099.0,2179.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/33","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's something we push up against a lot when reviewing these grants, and I'm going to keep it as vague as possible, obviously for the confidentiality of anyone who has gotten or applied for one of these. But there's not a requirement to keep the physical asset as part of the grant process. But in terms of the conversation of the people that are reviewing that is often a really hot topic. And sometimes it's clear, OK, this place is really small. It's a community place. They have no storage. We might recommend to them, maybe try to talk to another institution and see if they could take on the physical. But it's clear they have no option. But then sometimes if it's a larger, more well-funded place and they just would like to get rid of the physical so they can have more shelf space that is often a much more heated discussion about that judgment call then, but it's still, it's not a requirement that we have a lot of debate about that because both the thing you're speaking of here about the sort of hubris of losing it, there's also the data that can just exist in exploring the physical object. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2179.0,2246.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/34","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I've had that argument a couple of times at the institute, and I've always been adamant that we keep the original, I don't care if you digitized it you keep the original unless it's so badly damaged that there's nothing you could do with it. And there have been some tapes that it's just totally the stuff is just falling off of the tape while you're trying to record it. But even in that case, I still have said, let's keep it anyway. You never know. Maybe we can still rescue something off of that if something better comes along down the line. Because I don't think that whatever digital platforms we have right now are the last words. I think there's going to be something else down the line. And I want those original recordings to still be there so we can tackle them again if we have to or somebody can. I probably won't be around, but somebody else could do it. \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2246.0,2306.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/35","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So, Vinnie, a question for you. As someone that kind of walks the two worlds of private and institutional collector then, has your work experience impacted your own collecting practices or vice versa? Has your personal collecting practices influenced your institutional collecting? \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2306.0,2332.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/36","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's a good question. Again, my I'm going to keeping my wife up. She used to yell at me all the time about, Why are you buying this? If it's at the Institute of Jazz Studies, why don't you just listen to it there? And my answer to her was always, Well, because let's say it's two o'clock in the morning and I want to hear an Erol Garner recording. I want to go to my basement and play it. I don't want to wait till the next day and go to the institute. And I want it. It's mine. I want to hear it now, you know? So that's my answer to her. But yeah, it's funny. I would say that the only way I can really answer that question is, you know, if we acquire something at the institute that is, like, really great and I can get that same thing from my own personal collection somewhere in some way, somehow, I usually tend to do that. So, yeah, I am sort of duplicating the institute to some extent. But then again, I also have gotten some things personally that the institute doesn't have. And I think we talked a little bit about what we're going to do with our collections when I guess we're no longer on this Earth. I hope to maybe have those collections go into the Institute of Jazz Studies when I am no longer around so that they can have them. But for now, they're mine and I'm keeping them. I will lend them if they want me to do that, but they're mine. And the reason why the institute doesn't have them is probably because maybe I didn't have the budget to acquire it for the institute or nobody's donated it to the institute yet. But yet I might, as you know, get a copy of it somehow some way. And that's the way it is. I mean, you know, you can't have everything for for the institute. Sometimes I got to just get things for me. But yeah, I suppose we fed into each other. And I actually have given things to the institute that I've acquired. Or sometimes if I if I can get two copies of something, it's not going to cost me an arm and a leg to do so I would get two copies and give one to the institute knowing damn well, I'm never going to get reimbursed. So it's getting reimbursed at Rutgers is the biggest problem in the world. I've given up on that a long time ago. I just said to hell with it, take it you know it's not worth getting into all the red tape to be reimbursed for anything. And that's another reason why I say I don't do a lot of buying for both things. I mean, it's, you know, either it's for me or it's for the institute. And our budget has shrunk over the years for acquiring things and for the IJS  unfortunately, as I'm sure every institution, everybody who's listening, who's in an institution like ours can probably say the same thing. The money's just isn't there anymore. So you have to do a lot of begging and hoping people will just give you things or give you a break on things. And that's, you know, that's the way that is right now. Maybe they'll change at some point, but that's the way it is, unfortunately. So I don't know the answer to your question, but that's that's my shot. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2332.0,2535.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/37","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"For what it's worth, I find that my relationship with the stuff I collect is very different when I'm kind of in an institutional setting and I talk to people who are at institutions versus just sort of me with my collection. I mean, it's kind of what Vinnie was talking about. But, you know, to the extent that you kind of revel in that organic experience of, you know, of looking at your stuff, listening to it, whatever. It's very different from doing that in an institutional setting where you're, you know, immediately thrust into databases and and other sorts of things. And just as an example, when I come across collections that were put together by a collector in the period I keep it together. I try to keep it together. That's not only because I respect that collector but because there's something I will learn from each of those recordings because they were found together, which means they were acquired at around the same time. You know, you're not going to you're not going to get that institution. So, for because a lot of cases, they're not going to keep, I see Dorothy's face in a lot of cases, they're not going to keep that stuff together. They're going to, you know, assign each thing accession number and off the goes. It's hard to have that experience of taking that collection in that case and seeing the way somebody housed it and kind of trying to understand how it all happened. \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2535.0,2638.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/38","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I mean, I guess my face was thinking, I don't know what institutions. And I'm sure I can imagine what you're talking about. Also, it feels like if you're acquiring a collectors material as a collection and you don't care about original order and provenance, that's not the best practices for the field, for like profession, and that's something I've often pushed against in my life. But foundationally, a collection is received into an institute that has an order or has a singular provenance should be kept together like that's the standard. Sometimes, though, I know with audio people will take it in and not think about that as a collection. Perhaps think of them as discrete items. And then exactly what you're saying happens. Now this is just a bunch of individually cataloged items, but not including the collector information and that sort of context. Yeah, not that I really just try to give you special. I really often don't have it. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2638.0,2699.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/39","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, in the cataloging process, we generally do acknowledge that it's from the collection of blankety blank blank so that that is acknowledged, but it's not kept as a separate collection. We just can't do that. We don't have the space to do that. We have to mix it in with the rest of the collection. \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2699.0,2718.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/40","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, there's the intellectual keeping, though, and the physical keeping. So what I'm saying is intellectually, things can be, so for example, we just merged, this is almost tangentially audio. I think we'll put this in audio land because there are a couple, there's a couple of recordings of this collection. But we have at Houghton thousands of blackface minstrelsy materials ranging from 1800s through mid-20th century, and those were previously in multiple different collections, and then some of them were single items cataloged. And we recently created the Houghton Harper Theater Collection of Blackface Minstrelsy Material. And now that's all in one collection and nothing was moved on the shelves because people can't go onto the shelves anyway. It's clear they don't know what's in the shelves, but in terms of searching our thinking there is, if you're looking for the material, you probably would like to look in one place, not a bunch of places. But then even on the collecting for institutions, a lot of institutions won't let you collect. I mean, there are some times you have to sign contracts or it's part of your job agreement to not collect in areas that you're also professionally collecting in. Which probably keeps a lot of people out of wanting to take certain jobs. If you're a private collector, but I know for us there would be concerns, for instance, if there was a big poetry audio collection that was up for auction that maybe we were going for and then surprisingly our Houghton bid was very low, but the private bid from someone whose name we all recognize was very high. Our curator would never do that. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2718.0,2833.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/41","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So this is a question that we had, and then also actually one of our participants has chimed in a bit about that. And it's about the how might collectors and institutions and this is open to everyone. You know, it's a free for all. But how much collectors and institutions, you know, collaborate and I mean, beyond that simple handover. And in particular, there's some feeling that, you know, being in a position of, you know, seeing both sides at that, how do you make there be some more. There's a symbiotic relationship, so how how might the collecting community and the academic archival community, you know, kind of build relationships and understandings rather than kind of widen the gulf? \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2833.0,2909.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/42","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'd love to see more institutions be open to non-custodial work with collectors, especially when we think about digitization for preservation and access. I think that there can sometimes be, not a lack of respect, but a lack of acknowledging the depth of feeling around someone's collection and what that might mean for them personally in terms of not ownership, but, you know, in terms of having those materials and all sorts of things that might get tied up with that. But the idea of, let's say, something, a collection that's clearly not having any rights issues. That's rare, but let's just say this is the collection. We know there's no rights concerns. I don't know why. I do know why, but I would love to see more institutions working with collectors to say we'd love to digitize this and make it available to our scholars. And while doing that, perhaps there's some preservation work that we will be doing or some rehousing that we will pay for. And then we'll return to you these objects. And I know that some work like that is done a lot of times with photography, like personal photos. There's more post custodial work and National Museum of African-American History, Smithsonian and Culture. Smithsonian has their Great Migration project, hilarious pun. But doing their family home movies digitization, where people bring their home movies, those movies are then digitized and then returned to the families along with the physical object and the digital asset, so they have access to both then. I think that there's compromise on both sides when we're thinking about collectors because a lot of collectors do make reissues of things that they have sort of obscure music, you know, and that lowers your value of being able to do that. Of all that, music is now available for free for the scholarly research, but I think that that is a potential type of collaboration where everybody can have some benefit that people might be more receptive to if institutions were more receptive to not making it feel like you have to give us all of your stuff or there's no other conversation point. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=2909.0,3044.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/43","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, as institutions continue to hire non-specialists to do cataloging, I think it's important that they maybe reach out to private collectors of certain materials because they're going to know more about those recordings than that person sitting at that cataloging desk is going to know. I just recently saw something in a Rutgers catalog of one of our recordings that I know is wrong. I mean, I didn't catalog it, so I can't it blamed for it. But whoever did didn't realize that they just credited in the main entry field they gave a pseudonym person. This person doesn't really exist, like I know who the person really is on that recording. But you wouldn't know it from looking at the catalog. You would think it was a fictional person instead. So, you know, that's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Like, like private collectors know stuff and you should take advantage of their knowledge, you know, as much as possible. It would certainly aid in making your catalogs a lot more accurate. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3044.0,3122.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/44","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Vinnie, if you just if you just have one cataloging error, I'm just, you know, so reverential. I mean, that's \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3122.0,3129.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/45","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"That's what I've noticed lately. I'm sure there's a whole bunch of others, but that's the one I noticed recently. \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3129.0,3137.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/46","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, most likely. Is it very likely it wasn't even original cataloging?\n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3137.0,3147.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/47","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"It was original. It was an original cataloging. Yeah, yeah. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3147.0,3151.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/48","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But Vinnie, back to your point, I think you're correct. My perception is a great deal of the time people who are connected to the institutions and collectors are kind of in their corners. And that may be, that may sound, kind of heretical given ARSC and how ARSC tries to bring these communities together. But I just think it's a fact, and I'm more aware of it on the collector side. But there are, you know, there's an immense gulf, I think, you know, that means that a lot of stuff is still out there. And given the fragility of a lot of the the media that I deal with, well, I guess we all deal with, tape and wire and all kinds of stuff, things get destroyed. You know, you take I mean, basically these cylinders are bars of soap. You know, you store them properly. You drag a stylus through it every 10 years on original equipment and it gets destroyed. So and this is the result of, again, two camps that are often not talking to each other as much as they should given what's at stake, in my opinion. \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3151.0,3239.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/49","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think that's really true. I'm always saying to colleagues, you know, if somebody had a question, well I don't if they would at Houghton library, but let's just say we're collecting in new areas in this hypothetical, if somebody had a question about, you know, recorded gospel music. And I'm at Harvard, I'm sure we have professors who are scholars of that, I would definitely go to people I know that are collectors before I would go to a professor. Because I feel like they would, I would put money on collector friends having more access to recordings and also having more specifics that they could get that access to. They might not have the same macro view or this historical context. There's a lot of knowledge they might not have. And it's interesting in rare books land, because I think there is a known acceptance that there are collectors of rare books that are experts of bibliography. And I think that there's also probably some confusions or maybe prejudices there that don't connect that with, you know, recorded sound and the idea, yeah, you probably don't know as much about this. You might know the content even really well, but you might not know how this material works in the world. \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3239.0,3318.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/50","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Now, I thank you all for your perspective. I'm also in camp with let's communicate and break down silos. In my cataloging hat land at the ATM, I'm often reaching out to collectors or discographers or even finding the people who made the recording in the first place to be like, please give me a date, please tell me what this is. It just took, you know, better access, right? I'm thinking of collecting, and I think it was Dorothy that kind of mentioned this and Vinnie too, this really personal attachment to our recordings that we're collecting. People can get very attached to being a collector as well as, you know, the things that they are collecting. And I'm wondering Vinnie and John, as someone who's a collector within ARSC and identifies as a private collector, do you see a delineation between what we would consider a quote, serious collector, which is a term we've heard in ARSC spaces and someone who has a collection or might not be a serious collector? Or could you speak to if there's a delineation? And if so, what makes that delineation? \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3318.0,3413.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/51","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Oh, I'll go first on this one. You know, I to me, I think that delineation is the property of the person who's doing the collecting. I mean, I don't pass judgment on people who collect. If you collect Blue Note, I'm going to go to Blue Note again, Blue Note records that were done with a label from, you know, to a certain street in New York and that's all you collect. Listen, you're serious. I mean, you're serious about it. You do it. So as far as I'm concerned, that's fine. You know, I'm not going to tell you you're not serious. If you only collect smooth jazz, which I personally can't stand, I'm not going to say you're not a serious collector because that's what you like and that's what you're doing. When I joined ARSC, I noticed people were collecting all kinds of music that I, quite frankly, would never personally collect. I mean, the person that really comes to mind is a gentleman is no longer with us, fred Williams, who collected military music, military band music, which is nice, but it's not something that I particularly would collect. And then I know somebody else who collects Billy Murray records. I'm not a big Billy Murray fan, but if that's what you like, and you're serious about what you're doing, you're a serious collector. And if you see yourself that way, then then I'm not going to say, No, you're not. That's what you do. What you do is what you do. So that's that's maybe not a very scientific answer, but that's how I look at it. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3413.0,3527.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/52","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I go back to that to what I was saying earlier about it being an activity that engages both sides of your brain. And I mean, there are other there are other traits like, you know, Vinny talking about forgoing the lunch to to buy something, those are parts. And then there's and there is that continuum. I'm sorry, but there is that continuum from, you know, accumulator to hoarder to collector to, I mean, and also dilletente. I mean, there's a broad range. But to me, when you're fully invested creatively, esthetically, intellectually in what you are acquiring that puts you on a different plane. And that to me, is what a serious collector is. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3527.0,3586.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/53","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah. And John John said it better than I did, actually. That's sort of what I was trying to say, too. I mean, my wife has collections. She has LPs, you know, down here, but she's not a collector and she'll tell you she's not a collector because these are just things that she bought because she liked them. And that's that. And then and at some point she stopped buying them. So that was that. So. So she's not a collector and, you know, that's fine. But compared to what I've got sitting here, you know, I definitely consider myself a collector because that's what I do and I invest all that time and money and effort into acquiring these things. And also, I think, you know, to separate myself from a hoarder, I mean, I actually enjoy these things. I mean, I listen to them. They really do mean more to me than than, I guess, to the average person. And whereas a hoarder, I think, just has stuff and it just sits in a pile somewhere and they don't, you know, don't even know what they have because they just keep, you know, buying stuff or acquiring stuff. And I don't do that. I mean, I hope I never get to that point, actually, but maybe we're close to being that. Maybe there's a fine line between the collector, the order. But I hope I don't cross into that other realm because I don't want to be found buried underneath a pile of CDs. But, you know, I think John said it pretty much the way I should have said it. So thank you. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3586.0,3681.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/54","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"The H word is a clear and present danger, I think, for a lot of people. You know, where somebody's got, I don't know, a collection of a couple of thousand somethings and all of a sudden another collection of three thousand of those somethings comes along. And you know, you have to make a decision not only of, you know, just muscling that but, you know, how it's going to make you feel. But but to your point, Vinnie, I mean, there's in a building in Manhattan 110 Fifth Avenue. It's now, I think, the H\u0026M headquarters in the United States or something. But in the 1890s, it was basically the Silicon Valley of the phonograph industry, and it was full of very important early contributors to to the commercialization of the phonograph. And you know, whenever I see things got 110 Fifth Avenue on it, I just keep it. You know, for somebody else, that could be a tiny collection, but, you know, really fascinating. So it doesn't have to do with size at all. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3681.0,3756.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/55","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Hmm. Good point. \n\nJohn Bondurant","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3756.0,3758.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/56","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we're at the top of the hour and we do want to be respectful of everyone's time and our panelists and our and our attendees. And of course, we totally understand if attendees need to to jump off somewhere else. But we're going want to try to have one wrap up question here and then we'll go into our Q\u0026A from the audience portion. And so this last go round, we've talked about some of it, you know, because the collecting involves an expense of of time, mone,y knowledge. And sometimes this may be, you know, a barrier. And we know people who feel that there are people from underrepresented or disadvantaged populations who are not in positions to feel that they can collect. And you just answered, you know that it's more like the intent, I think, as the degree of seriousness. So but bearing that in mind, what do you think are ways that ARSC and other organizations could be more inclusive to all types of collectors and collections? \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3758.0,3850.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/57","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I think being open to folks who collect in new ways or who are really thinking about how they're using sound actively could be an interesting area of growth. It's hard because I know ARSC is so huge with so many individuals in it that anything feels like, I'm sure there are people who are doing whatever thing I would say and they're doing it well or interestingly. But I think about, you know, friends or colleagues of mine who do electronic music and sound art and have huge collections of found sound for sampling and often will have those found sound collections available for anyone to download so that they can put it into their own electronic music. And that sort of sharing, that is a really interesting type to me of audio collection. There is no physicality. I mean, there's not the same classic item of sound recording physicality. There's probably like different concepts of ownership, and preservation is an especially. I come from a experimental 20th and 21st century music background formally. And so even that sort of expectation of permanence as a desired trait is not necessarily shared with everyone who's doing this type of sound collecting. But I think that there's a lot of that and I think that that world is, I don't know if it's more open to you, but it's often more explored by people from marginalized backgrounds because so much of it is about the hunt in the scavenge from a open source, you know, from this open world of what's available online, even if that's somebody watches a YouTube video, and all these sorts of quality questions are not what's important there. But this idea of like I've known and have done in my life, you know, lots of bird songs I want two seconds of each of these birds songs. And now I've got a thousand item collection of these different bird sounds from a variety of areas, and you put them together to make this weird sound. And that's I think there's a lot of that probably in hip hop, but I'm thinking especially of experimental music and electronic music, that there's a huge space for that. And people that might not think of themselves as being in community with ARSC type sound collectors, but would definitely think of themselves as people who collect sound. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3850.0,3997.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/58","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And that's exactly what Dorothy hit it on the head. That's exactly the kind of collector I think ARSC should be looking towards or for because that's, like you said, that's going to represent the underrepresented groups and also young people. I just recently looked at an excerpt from a documentary that Leah Biel did called For the Record, about record collectors. And you know, the thing that struck me about that film, even when she first showed it was that, you know, you're looking at basically older white men in that entire, you know, documentary. In fact, when she finished showing it, she asked what network would be interested? And I said, I don't think BET would want it. But I don't think I got a big laugh either. But anyway, you know, I consider myself sort of an oddball, you know, being African-American and, you know, collecting the way I do because again, I wasn't able to do it the way I wanted to until I got a full time job. So you know that was, you know, my story. But I also think that even if you do want to do it, collect 78s and that kind of thing, I think there are certain collectors who take a certain pride in not, you know, spending a lot of money on acquiring certain things. You know, they would never spend more than, you know, five dollars on a 78 or something like that. And they just love the fact that I got this thing in a store, antique store, and know the guy didn't know what he had, and he just gave it to me for like two cents or something like that. I mean, there's still that going on. And I think if you're really resourceful, you could still probably do that kind of thing. But it's going to take a lot of time and you're going to have to really put yourself out there to do it. But the rewards are there. I mean, once you get that item that you snagged for practically nothing, I mean, it's a good feeling because, you know, Hey, I did it without going on eBay and spending, you know, six hundred dollars for it, you know? So that, yeah, like Dorothy said, I think that type of collecting is is the wave of the future, quite frankly. And I think that, if ARSC is going to open its doors to that sort of thing, I think it would be nice. I think it really would be good, a good thing for ARSC. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=3997.0,4161.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/59","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I don't I don't have any specific thoughts on programmatically how this can be effected. I think  there are various ideas. I agree with everything Vinnie says. I think there's a lot of room for collecting all kinds of stuff. You know, it's not a financial barrier, it's just having time for sure. And also just following your interests into an area that works for you. You know, budgetarily, emotionally, et cetera, et cetera, esthetically. But how to sort of institutionalize that within ARSC? So that separation, that breach, between institutions and collectors is narrowed. I think that's really challenging and I'm not sure how many of us are leopards willing to change our spots too? \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4161.0,4236.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/60","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, thanks so much, everybody, for your thoughts. And now we'll transition over into audience questions and, by golly, people really want to ask you a lot of questions. And so let's see, do we want to start with the ones that came in? Do we want to start with the ones that people submitted when they registered? So we we kind of talked a little bit about some of the ones submitted by registrants and we touched a little bit on preservation and providing access. So perhaps we start with a question, what do you think about sharing your collection with others? And if you do so, is it reactively or proactively? What is your perception of whether other collectors do so? It wasn't directed at any one person, so I guess for the people who identify as collectors. Do you share items with others? Is that when you're asked to or do you offer to share? And what are perception of collectors who share collections with others? \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4236.0,4316.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/61","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I used to years ago. I haven't done so lately. One of the reasons is because the circle of people who I run around with aren't jazz fans, so they don't want to hear anything in my collection. They think I'm kind of weird. So they leave me alone. They leave my collection alone. The only other person I really share anything with is my brother, whose, you know, sense of music or love of music is the same as mine. But my wife doesn't like jazz. Most of my friends don't like jazz. I don't know, what can I say it's the way it is? But I mean, I have. I have brought things into the institute, for instance, that I used to a radio show. We just, I should say we because we took turns hosting it on WBGO, which is the NPR station now here in Newark. Jazz from the archives was the name of the show, and we used to take turns hosting it. So I would bring my records in and and I would because we didn't have everything, of course. And you know, there were just things that we just didn't have. So I bring those in and I play those and share them that way. Yeah, we got to hear them. So, yeah, yeah, I guess that's about it for me. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4316.0,4397.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/62","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I have machines as well as records in the house. And when people come over and sort of ask about them, I will often play a four minute long Blue Amberol cylinder. And most of the time, after about 90 seconds, they'll start asking a question. And you'll realize these guys are not interested in the music. They're just, you know, they're done. So to the question, I don't actively open my collection others. I do sort of have that, that filter of people who want to see it. But I'll tell you these days when a younger person, which seems to be an increasingly large number of people, wants to see my stuff and talk about it, it's a supreme pleasure for me. I love not just sharing it, but talking about it, finding out what they're interested in, seeing where the points of intersection are. And that to me is a great pleasure. I know some collectors who are secretive, but I think that group is diminishing, actually. I think that at least among my acoustic era stuff there used to be a kind of a competitiveness and a privacy that was, I thought, pretty awful. And I think that's mostly given way. I think that's changed, and partly it's because of of the democratization of this stuff. You know, when you reach the point that virtually everything produced after 1930 is out there somewhere, likely with a price guide on eBay, completed items, or Poppsych, or Discogs or something. You know, it's a different world. Thank goodness. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4397.0,4530.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/63","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, I have to agree with John on that one, yeah. Yeah, I think everything he said is true. Yeah. And like I said, I gladly share whatever I have, if I could find somebody who wanted to hear it. Doesn't seem to be there, right? \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4530.0,4546.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/64","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm coming. I'm coming over. Vinnie.\n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4546.0,4549.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/65","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Come on down. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4549.0,4558.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/66","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So we've had a number of folks ask this question or something along the lines of wanting to hear comments from the panel about what provisions a collector should make for the disposal of a collection upon the death of the owner. So and, you know, finding a home for that one says it's impression that many archives currently lack the money, personnel, and space to accept large collections, especially ones with analog content. Is this true? Also, what should older collections, or older collectors, who would like to pass on their lifelong collections do in order to get them into the hands of people or archives that might have an appreciation for the content and ensure that it's properly preserved? \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4558.0,4611.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/67","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I would say that, I mean, I've thought and thought long and hard about this and done a lot in the last couple of years on this subject, so I'll just take a swing at it. And I think that, you know, thinking about the the future of what collectors, what we have acquired, organized, curated, whatever is, it's hard. It's, like any financial planning decision, compounded by the fact that, you know, compounded by the weighty realization that you can't take it with you. I mean, I know that sounds kind of trite, but it's but it offers some collectors, you know, you really got to confront that. And it, of course, depends on what you collect. You know, if you're collecting postwar 78s, that's a very different story than if you're collecting, let's say, European operatic cylinders or something like that. But certainly the first step is to know what you have. You've got to have a catalog. I actually went to the effort of developing a cataloging system. Yuri Shimoda helped me with this, which has underlying MARC codes so that at a certain point of all those, all those fields, will line up somewhere pretty readily. And when I talk to people who have, I guess, what you might call problem collections like final, first thing I say is, you know, go to Discogs. Figure out what you got. Download 6V. Put in more personal information on locations and that sort of thing, and at least have it organized. And then talk to institutions and, you know, kind of let people know what you've got and what you're doing. And hopefully you can find that point. You could find that place. There are a lot of specifics beyond that, but I think that this is something we all have to face. We all want to avoid a mess left behind, which has happened way too often and I also think that a lot of people look to their I brought up earlier and look to collecting as equivalent to investing. And as a result, the tendency is to think, well, after I'm gone, you know, a inheritable can put this stuff on the private market and they're going to do really well or something. Well, it actually doesn't work out that way. And for every success, there are probably three failures and others can speak to collections where somebody hesitated to donate and it just sat around and got water damaged or something like that happened. And it's it's it's I've acquired a bunch of stuff that's had that fate. It's heartbreaking. Absolutely heartbreaking. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4611.0,4818.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/68","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If I can speak from the institutional side of this, I would say that anybody thinking of doing something with their collection on their demise, you know, do what John said, inventory or catalog what you have so that we know what you've got when you approach us. Because when you just say, I have a collection of 78s that are just, you know, the rarest in the world, we don't know that. You've got to tell me what you got, alright. Also, do your homework. The Institute of Jazz Studies has been in existence since 1952. So chances are, we've got a lot of what you've got. So if you're going to give us something, you know, maybe you should look someplace else, if you've got a collection of LPs for instance. Because there's a good chance that our LP collection is every bit as good as your LP collection. But again, unless you have an inventory, we really don't know that do we, and we're not going to take on the expense of taking on a collection and which we're going to have to dispose of 90 percent of it to get the 10 or five percent of whatever is in it that we don't have. Also, maybe you might want to think about not necessarily asking an institution like ours to take everything, but allowing us to cherry pick items that we do need and find some other way of getting rid of the other stuff that you have in your collection. At least you'll know that the rare things are being kept or things that that you know that we actually can use are being kept. Because if we just take on every take, like I said, we're going to dump most of it if we already have it. And now we don't even do that anymore, that was the old days, alright. Nowadays, we can't afford to take a large collection or even a medium sized collection and go through it because that's time and money. Someone's got to go through that. Someone's got to spend the time to do all that. And then there's the whole disposal thing. I mean, it's not as easy. We call it deaccessioning, actually, we don't call disposal, but that's basically what it is. And that's that's not as easy as it used to be, either. So I've just said, do your homework. I mean, find a place that may actually want that collection, don't just think because you know, you have jazz records that the Jazz Institute is the only place that you can come to with that, for instance. So that's just one instance. I'm sure there are other, you know, types of music and other collections that that have a similar issue. So that's that.\n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4818.0,4982.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/69","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, I think it's just also important to really evaluate what your. What your emotional stake is before you start engaging with other with institutions. If you are thinking, I want institutions to have this collection because of my collecting history. Like I want them to have the Dorothy Berry Collection. And that's why like if you don't want to take all of it, that sounds bonkers to me because this whole thing like this tells the story. You might have a more difficult time, depending on. Most people would have a more difficult time finding an institution. If your goal is really OK, I will be passed away and I want to set this free to the world. Then you might benefit from saying like Vinnie is bringing up, you know, I know I have these 20 jazz records that are very rare and I looked and it doesn't seem like you guys have them. And I will like to donate them to you after I've passed away, and we can sign this contract now saying that you will keep these 20. That sort of thing is something I think would be beneficial to think about beforehand, which sometimes doesn't happen. And then it does feel very, it feels personal, because you're having a discussion that wasn't the one you were prepared for. And I think also on this, I'll just say also on Vinnie's point, not the question of institutions having capacity and having ability to maintain and preserve and provide access varies. But depending if you have the collections that have local interest, that are regional, you can potentially find an institution that would really benefit from your collection that maybe isn't the name plate. We often think of this with things of, you know, yes, it's great for something to be at the Schomburg, but there are other relevant places where black people might do research, or where people might want to research black people. So it's that sort of thinking of, you know, maybe this other place would be really great for this collection, even though I wanted to have it at the American Folklife Center or something. Maybe this collection of South Carolina folk music might go well somewhere in South Carolina.\n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=4982.0,5112.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/70","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Good point. \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5112.0,5112.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/71","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks so much. We like I said that so many great questions and I am so sorry we don't have five hours to get to all of them. So we are going to wrap up here in our last five minutes with a little fun one. Do members of the panel have their own quote holy grail of items that you want to find, whether that's for a personal collection or something that if it came across your desk at your institution, man, that would be cream of the crop.\n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5112.0,5153.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/72","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"In jazz is always the thing about the Buddy Bolden cylinder. I've heard that somemany times. First of all, there probably is no Buddy Bolden cylinder. OK, but man, if I could find that damn cylinder somewhere. No, I don't. I can't think of anything at the moment. Maybe John's got something like that. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5153.0,5176.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/73","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"You know, people say, What's your most important cylinder, or what's your most valuable cylinder, or what's the cylinder you most want? It's like, you know, it's a hard question because of the, you know, because of the collectors thing, you know. You think you're going in one direction, then you see something and it's like, Oh, this is just too wonderful. But to me, it's if it's early and, trust me, the world sounded very different in the early 1890s, if it's early, if I feel the passion of the performer, and even if it's a common performer, that to me is the holy grail is when that person who went or people who went before the horn over one hundred twenty five years ago wanted to actually send something out there, and I got it. That's a wonderful moment. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5176.0,5253.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/74","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"If you'd ask me that question maybe 30, 40 years ago, I would have probably said that, you know, Dean Benedetti recordings of Charlie Parker, but they have since been found and they have since been issued. Mosaic Records did a nice set on that. In fact, that's the only set that they actually can keep doing because everything else they do is limited editions. But they actually own that so they can put those out as much as they want. And the other one was would be the Bill Savory collections. He was a sound engineer that recorded a lot of big band stuff and small group stuff from 30s and 40s. But that has come out also. Somebody found that. He passed away and the National Jazz Museum in Harlem has that stuff now. So a lot of these things are coming out. But I'm still waiting for the Buddy Bolden cylinder, hasn't come out yet. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5253.0,5304.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/75","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"But Vinnie what's interesting is you and I are like on a different sides of the same street because you're there saying, you know, Buddy Bolden or I could say, you know, a Louis Vasnier cylinder, but you know, that's one piece of the collector's DNA. The other piece is just what thrills you. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5304.0,5332.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/76","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Good point. Good point, \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5332.0,5338.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/77","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Dorothy, did you have? \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5338.0,5344.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/78","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I'm so not tied to owning things. Because I mean, it sounds cooler than I am, that sounds like much more \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5344.0,5357.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/79","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"So you're normal, in other words! \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5357.0,5362.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/80","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"A lot of my small personal collecting is usually tied to the personal. So when I'm thinking of this, I mean, I would love maybe like an original pressing of Nonaah or Sound by Roscoe Mitchell, because I studied with him. And I love him, so that'd be nice. But also, if you give me like a new reissue and I wouldn't really care. I wouldn't mind the Julie Andrews Moondog LP. You can get them. They're not, like they're rare, but I had 57 or 100 albums. I'm the worst for this question. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5362.0,5395.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/81","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, now that I'm thinking about it, after what John just said, I guess there is something I'd like to see is the holy grail thing. It would be the recordings that Wes Montgomery, the guitarist, did with Eric Dolphy and John Coltrane. Supposedly, they recorded. Well, I won't say recorded, but they performed together, and I just can't believe nobody had a recorder going somewhere to capture that stuff. But I haven't seen it yet. It hasn't come out yet, so maybe it will. Maybe it will. \n\nDorothy Berry","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5395.0,5423.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/82","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Yeah, I mean, Bert Williams needed being recorded. And I don't, his recordings don't sound like what you would imagine his performing is based on description, but if somebody happened to be recording when they were making some of those early films or something, I wouldn't be mad to hear them. I wouldn't want to own it, though, because why should I have that? If it's rare everyone should have it in. I happen to have been raised by a very active hippie Christians. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5423.0,5457.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/83","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I agree. I think we haven't talked that much about access, but that's to me just key. \n\nDan Hockstein","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5457.0,5467.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/84","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, thank you so much, the show. \n\nJohn Levin","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5467.0,5471.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/85","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"I was just saying it's not the getting, it's the sharing. \n\nDan Hockstein","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5471.0,5474.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/86","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Well, I think that's a really great point to end on. And we just want to, let me find my little notes here. I'm sorry. OK, OK, here you go. Thank you so much to all of our panelists today. I know I can speak for myself, but also all of us, when I say that, I think this is a conversation that should continue within and outside of ARSC. Thank you to John and Alison. Thanks to the ARSC board. Thank you to you executive Director Nathan Georgitis, our webinar series promoter Joaquin Peres, our social media editor Jennifer Vaughn, our Aviary site editor Miyuki Meyer, NRPB and CLIR. \n\nYuri Shimoda","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5474.0,5522.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/87","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"And I just have two short reminders to conclude today's event. We have the ARSC virtual conference coming up in May, and the deadline for proposals is on January 31st. Please consider sharing about your own collection, your research, your work at the conference. Also, join us for our next Continuing Education Webinar Series installment on preserving podcasts. Saving New Sounds: Building and Using the PodcastRE Database is going to be on March 9th at 2:00 p.m. Eastern,","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5522.0,5561.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/88","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"a.m. Pacific, and I will go ahead and put the website link in the chat. Otherwise, all of you, please take care. Please stay safe. And, thank you again for joining us. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5561.0,5577.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/89","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thank you for inviting me. \n\nAllison McClanahan","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5577.0,5579.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/90","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Thanks so much, everyone. \n\nVincent Pelote","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5579.0,5581.0"},{"id":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154/transcript/35533/annotation/91","type":"Annotation","motivation":"transcribing","body":{"type":"TextualBody","value":"Take care, folks.","format":"text/plain"},"target":"https://arsc.aviaryplatform.com/collections/1249/collection_resources/64141/file/149154#t=5581.0,1901.62667"}]}]}]}